DSA-Forum

Ok, let's clearly separate the issues here and I hope you can answer each of my points:

1. According to this page the errata are protected by copyright. Now, publishing them under the GNU FDL is illegal, right? And doesn't the same hold for the indices? What legal argument justifies their existence in Wiki Aventurica?

2. All articles published under the GNU FDL may be translated if the criteria mentioned on the page Viridovix' linked above are met. Where's the legal problem here?

3. You're talking about "respecting intellectual property". What do you think who should be protected by these laws? We're talking about the theoretical case that the people whose "intellectual property" we should "respect" actually give us the permission to publish unofficial translations in the Wiki Aventurica under the GNU FDL. Do you really see a moral problem here?
Do you really think that there will be "legal consequences"? If in some future scenario Ulisses realizes that they shouldn't have given the permission, don't want the unofficial translation on Wiki Aventurica anymore, they can write an e-mail and we can remove it.

I just can't believe you'd put a stop to a community project Ulisses Spiele approves of because of some legal technicalities nobody cares about.

Edit: What I'm told when editing: "Außerdem gibst du uns hiermit die Zusage, dass du den Text selbst verfasst hast, dass der Text Allgemeingut (public domain, siehe auch Urheberrechte beachten) ist, oder dass der Copyright-Inhaber seine Zustimmung gegeben hat.". The way I read this is that it's okay to publish translations in Wiki Aventurica under the GNU FDL when the one holding the copyright allows us to do so.

Viridovix hat geschrieben:It seems that we are oriented to ask the Ulisses permission. But just for point out wat GNU FDL states about translations:


http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html

Point 8.

8. TRANSLATION

Translation is considered a kind of modification, so you may distribute translations of the Document under the terms of section 4. Replacing Invariant Sections with translations requires special permission from their copyright holders, but you may include translations of some or all Invariant Sections in addition to the original versions of these Invariant Sections. You may include a translation of this License, and all the license notices in the Document, and any Warranty Disclaimers, provided that you also include the original English version of this License and the original versions of those notices and disclaimers. In case of a disagreement between the translation and the original version of this License or a notice or disclaimer, the original version will prevail.

If a section in the Document is Entitled "Acknowledgements", "Dedications", or "History", the requirement (section 4) to Preserve its Title (section 1) will typically require changing the actual title.

If I understand this correctly this allows us to translate any article in the Wiki Aventurica, since they all fall under the GNU FDL (according to Borbaradwurm, which I don't believe to be correct)? Kind of ironic..

@Borbaradwurm: You're just repeating yourself. Read again and answer points made by Viridovix and me. To ease this task for you I quote the relevant passages:

Viridovix hat geschrieben:[...]In a web site you can license different pages with different license, or specify in your license what is covered by the license itself.

As for example, the wiki-aventurica is licensed under GNU FDL, but of course you cannot license under GNU FDL the DSA logo, or the DAS SCHWARZE AUGE name itself, or the book covers...

But you can license under GNU FDL your work of classification, your own commentary and text, your template and wiki layout.

Igen hat geschrieben:@Borbaradwurm: We have the special permission to upload pictures (taken from DSA publications) in the Wiki Aventurica. On each page we mention that we have this special permission. Why shouldn't that be legal? And why shouldn't we be able to do the same for translations?

Dear Ulisses,

In a collaborative project members of the online communities wiki-aventurica.de, usnb.it, <others> would like to create a multilingual glossary in German, Italian, English and <others>.

We intend to publish the glossary on each of the previously mentioned websites, where the version on wiki-aventurica.de will be the working version. A sample page illustrating our idea can be found on the following page:
http://www.usnb.it/wiki/index.php?title ... ndiceDE-IT
Since we believe that unofficial translations of terms related to TDE are not covered by the current agreement between Wiki Aventurica and Ulisses Spiele and we would like to make sure that you approve of our project, we would like to kindly ask for your permission to create such a glossary."

Hm, I made some corrections, reformulated some statements and left out the part about making changes when necessary, since I think that our intention to stick to everything that is official is very well known to Ulisses. Are you ok with the changes?

EDIT: I just noticed that I also unintentionally left out your unofficial translation of the rule book. I would suggest to discuss that issue in a separate email as to not get it confused with what we'd like to do with the glossary.

@Borbaradwurm: We have the special permission to upload pictures (taken from DSA publications) in the Wiki Aventurica. On each page we mention that we have this special permission. Why shouldn't that be legal? And why shouldn't we be able to do the same for translations?

Maybe there is a difference (i haven't studied law), but still I really don't understand why you're making such a big deal out of this. If Thomas, Florian and Patric are fine with the idea, why shouldn't we be? Because Thomas, Florian and Patric might sue Dennis? I don't think so. But since Dennis is the one taking the "risk", we might as well ask Dennis if he's ok with the glossary when Thomas, Florian und Patric are. And since you think it's such a great legal risk you can advise him not to allow us to start this project. I guess that would settle the "where" question.

EDIT: @Viridovix: I think your proposal is good, we should do it that way!

We're not discussing the english part of the Wiki Aventurica, but a glossary that still has to be created. I (now) see that there (as always) might be legal problems and I guess it'd be a good idea to write an email to Ulisses as I can (now) see that this glossar is indeed out of the usual scope of our work. I very much doubt that Dennis Reichelt will ever have to fear legal consequences from Thomas and Florian, but of course (as always) it doesn't hurt to ask first.

And btw if you really cannot see why something is a really bad idea if legal consequences for something you did hit someone else, than I'm afraid you are beyond help.

As I feel that your tone gets insulting, I conclude that you might felt insulted by me, I apologize for that and hope we can continue the discussion in a more objective manner.

I don't really get the point here. The proposed glossary should contain official translations, unofficial translations should be marked as such, but could still be included. How to distinguish between official and unofficial information is a technicality that will be taken care of when we start implementing the proposal. Of course the glossary shouldn't explain the terms in more detail than we usually do in the Wiki Aventurica. Now, where's the problem?

I had a look at what similar pages exist in our Wiki and found this page: "Wörterbücher". I think we can reuse some of the content. As you can see from the english-german dictionaries linked on the page above there are different translations possible, so maybe the template should be extended accordingly (or we just leave out the 'Realms of Arkania' translation and just concentrate on the books).
Other content we might reuse for the french and english definitions can be found browsing the categories FR and EN.

I totally agree and I doubt that anyone else will disagree. Right now it's a little late, but I'm looking forward to start the project tomorrow.

Your idea sounds great! Two questions come to my mind:
1. Which Wiki do you think should be the host for this glossar? An existing one (yours or ours) or would you like to create a new one for this purpose? An obvious advantage of chosing "Wiki Aventurica" would be that we could reuse content of existing english and french pages. But of course we lack Italian translations.
2. Are there any other communities that would contribute to such a glossary, in particular english or french ones? I remember that sb. mentioned a french online community, but I can't remember who and where.